Thursday, July 21, 2005

Flying in India - Shivkar Talpade?

This is a very interesting article which speaks of Shivkar Talpade pioneering flight a full 8 years before the Wright brothers did (in 1895). Apparently Shivkar's research was based on Samskrit treatises on vaimAnikashAstra. It would be great if this had been true. I would believe it completely had Stephen Knapp's name not been mentioned.

Stephen Knapp has a web site that is pro-Hindu. But it also claims that Taj Mahal was a Shiva temple with pretty poor proof. Any pattern is dubbed 'vedic'. That is another thing I hate nowadays. People are bringing the Veda to everyday life to the extent that soon we'll have vedic tea, vedic coffee and vedic TV. Why the urge to prefix everything under the sun with vedic?

The veda is supreme for me even if it does not talk about quarks or the distance from the earth to the sun or the string theory. It is like a mother to me even if it calls the sun rising and setting. Because the physical realm is not where the veda rules but in the spiritual. What else can declare in words that words and mind cannot reach it ? "yato vAcho nivartante aprApya manasA saha". That, is the realm of the veda and not something like vedic nuclear science or vedic toothpaste. Study of the veda traditionally and with a shraddhA-strengthened intellect should let us into the secrets of the veda.

What can you say to those who think that the puruSha sUkta has coded the distance between the earth and the sun?


Anonymous said...

Please go through this comprehensive discussion on the Taj Mahal debate before you pass any judgement. OTOH, I agree that Stephen Knapp writes a lot of bullshit. But Vimanashasthra is a genuine text, though I am not sure about the actual machine

nIlagrIva said...


Don't get me wrong. I am not passing judgment. I would like to believe that Taj Mahal was a Hindu temple. I would also like to believe that Talpade flew before the Wright brothers.

But some people have cried "wolf!" too many times. So when I see even true things said by them, my mind filters them out.

Then there are great(sarcastic here) examples on Indian Science and History published and most of them are just based on hearsay. IMO, the Mecca/Medina story is just that.

Though I am a committed Indian and Hindu, I don't want to disregard contributions of other civilisations around the world. By just claiming that we did everything and that everything that the "others" did was just by copying us, we aren't making a lot of progress, though a lot of it might be true.

So, if someone is so interested, let them build a vimAna based on the vaimAnikashAstra. That will be definitely useful research. Get the text historically dated.

And as for the Taj Mahal, let there be an impartial inquiry conducted.

I know, I know! Both of the above are not possible in present India as nobody will fund a vimAna creation and the government won't allow an inquiry to be conducted if it is mentioned that the objective was to determine whether the Taj Mahal was in fact, tejomahAlaya or not.

I have arguments with my wife on this. She seems to believe PN Oak's theory too!

But to be fair, I haven't seen the Taj Mahal. So as you say, I will suspend judgement on it till I see it for myself. But what discussion did you point me to?

Good to see that we share a similar view of Stephen Knapp's writings.


Anonymous said...

Well I am, more interested in the truth of the issue than the glory or infamy that Hindu civilistion might incur.
First regarding Vimamshastra, all I said is that the text exists. But most who have read the text have said that the ideas mentioned in the text do not help in building a flying machine. This link my interest you in this regard

Regarding Taj Mahal, if everything that Bhat- Athavle have said is true, there is strong circumstantial evidence to prove that Shah Jahan did not build a new tomb and the building was in Raja Jaisingh's possession when it was transformed into Taj Mahal. But PN Oak discredited his own arguments by jumping the gun into conclusions on whether it was a temple or palace and who built it

nIlagrIva said...

That is an interesting thought. I found myself quite willing to accept that the Taj Mahal is a building of Hindu/Rajput origin. Can you please direct me to Bhat-Athavle's paper(s) which talk about this ? So stories of Ustad Isa's hands getting chopped are, you know, just stories then! I would like to read their paper and seeing the Taj for myself before I come to a conclusion.

I found out for sure that Tipu as a freedom fighter and a "secular" individual is pure myth. This was because there were multiple independent sources that corroborated this view.

I will check out the VshAstra and see what it tells us. Thanks for the link.

Anonymous said...

Regarding Vimanashasthra, I need to backtrack. It seems the text is a modern one, written after the Aeroplane was invented and meant to be imaginative. So i don't think VS is ancient.
Here is the Bhat-Athavale paper I refered to, on Prof. Kak's site
It turns out from the data given in this paper that Ustad Isa was a rather low paid architect who probably concerned more with outer decorations than actual construction of the site

nIlagrIva said...

Even though the VS is not ancient, I feel that people in ancient India knew how to fly. The references to the Pushpaka vimAna in the rAmAyaNa show this. There are other instances but they don't come to mind right now.

I regard Prof. Kak's work quite highly. I have seen that he does justice to any topic that he deals with. I will comment more after reading this paper. Thanks for the link.

Bala said...

Read kisari gangulis mahabharatha for the lineology of gods, the human race descended from manu, the five sons of yayathi and their kingdoms. Read devibhagavatham for the creation of universe, the five elements etc., sacred archives and world mysteries. The egyptians book of dead is nothing but Garuda purana. Remember religions are not created by god but 4 different castes are created depending on karmas. Listen to bhagavadgeetha. You will come to know who u are? From where did u come? and where u will go? Lots of stunning truth. One day will come. It will block our minds. It is the eternal truth. A dying Nasa scientist in you tube videos tells you the shocking truth. Explore and search the truth. Never miss it. Do not ignore

nIlagrIva said...

I don't understand what you're trying to say. It would be better if you could articulate your thoughts in a better fashion.